Matrix 2

[blitz43]

anyway, atunci programe rele.....

[patch4all]

Daydream, uite o parere pertinenta are toni.....filmul o avea si un substrat pentru inteligenti insa cred eu ca ceea ce interesa in general audienta nu isi afla locul in subtilitatile sintactico-morfologice ale scenariului pe care tu le tot invoci ca fiind esenta de nepatruns pentru mintile multora dintre cei care l-au vizionat ci mai curand cursivitatea povestii si dispunerea dinamica a acesteia intr-un cadru oarecum credibil. Dezacordul multora se refera tocmai la faptul ca povestea M2 a fost deja exagerata fata de cea derulata in M1, unde a fost creata o senzatie de realitate a secventelor.
Iar ceea ce loveste cu adevarat, ceea ce aduce simpatia generala pentru un anume film este tocmai asemanarea pana la trairea intr-o stare de semi-realitate de catre public a intimplarilor relatate.

Ma rog, nu pot intelege inca o data de ce cobori discutia la dezaprobarea flegmatica a altor opinii poate indreptatite....nu vad ceva ok in atitudinea ta, desi poate te afli pe o treapta superioara a cunoasterii..........sau esti un program mult mai evoluat decat noi.... :lol:

[morpheus]

Filmul a fost conceput ca o trilogie dar...
- a fost lansata prima parte pentru a ''testa piata''
- prima parte avut un final destul de concludent, in cazul unui esec sa nu se mai investesca si in celelalte parti
- dupa succesul primei parti au stiut ca urmatoarele o sa aiba incasari si mai mari si s-au axat mai mult pe partea comerciala (anumite secvente sunt copiate...)
- totusi pentru un film comercial este destul de bun

[Ambra Blu]

ci mai curand cursivitatea povestii si dispunerea dinamica a acesteia intr-un cadru oarecum credibil. Dezacordul multora se refera tocmai la faptul ca povestea M2 a fost deja exagerata fata de cea derulata in M1, unde a fost creata o senzatie de realitate a

Care poveste, if ya don't mind? Jumatate de poveste? e atit de badly woven incit lasa a lotta gaps in the story line and character development. Zici ca e hainele cele noi ale imparatului , sau fata jumate dezbracata-jumate-imbracata, covered with a net. Si in M1, da, am avut senzatia de neinlaturat a unei realitati. Aia virtuala.

..........sau esti un program mult mai evoluat decat noi.... :lol:

Nice said.

[patch4all]

Chiar si aia virtuala cred ca reprezinta ceva pentru spectator. Prin comparatie cu exagerarile....

[Ambra Blu]

Nu ca M1 ar fi fost cine stie ce, da' M2 a fost misto al un singur aspect: bataile (I felt the adrenaline rush cind ii batea insipizdul ala de Neo cu ranga pe domnii Smith).

[toni]

Da, frumos cu ranga, n-am ce zice. Mie mi- a placut cum a smuls-o din pamint (ciment) cu niste mortar atirnind. Dragutz....

[Ambra Blu]

Da, tati, da prea multe efecte speciale nu constituie decit un eye candy. Unde era povestea care sa ma sia in suspans? Asa, efecte speciale are si Donnie Darko, cu un buget mult mai mic si si film independent pe deasupra.

[catallin]

Oameni???
De fapt sunt niste programe...

Nu, nu, a zis bine ricutza: aia se vadesc a fi niste oameni nu programe si atunci unde dracu e componenta inumana a Matricii. Nu mai e, Deci, MATRICEA E CU NOI !
si ne ia banii...

[TuDy_^]

Voi nu intelegi un singur lucru`...M2 a fost sacrifikat pentru M3...asta se vede clar!Am vazut faze din M3...si va asigur ca asa este!De ce credeti ca intervalul dintre cele doua filme este asa de scurt??!?!?!A avut un final mai ciudat care va fii elucidat in M3! O sa regretati voi toate aceste cuvinte urate spuse despre M2 cand o sa iesiti din sala de cinema de la M3...

Multi au pornit cu, conceptia ca va fi un film mai slab...nu zic, ca nu o fost asa...dar macar merita sa apreciem munca acelor oameni!Iar cand va aud ca spuneti ca a fost comercial...innebunesc!Pai voi ce a`ti fi vrut...daca imi permiteti sa va intreb?La ce va asteptati?Mai mult de atat nu cred ca se putea...Tot spuneti ca a fost comercial...pai daca nu erau fazele acelea de lupta...daca Neo nu o` invia pe Trinity...daca...etc...ce mai ramanea oamnei buni din film?!?!?Inca o data va intreb:CUM A`TI FI VRUT VOI SA FIE MATRIX RELOADED CA SA NU`L CONSIDERATI COMERCIAL??!?!?!??!?!?!?!? :evil:

[theo]

...pai daca nu erau fazele acelea de lupta...daca Neo nu o` invia pe Trinity...daca...etc...ce mai ramanea oamnei buni din film?!?!?
:evil:

As zice ca raspunsul ti l-ai dat singura...

[catallin]

Zicea bine un prieten. Realizatorii au jubilat la sansa oferita de M2 ca nu vor mai "pierde" 20-30 de minute de film cu explicarea contextului asa cum trebuia facut M1 cine e cine si ce-i cu pastila rosie si agentii si restul. Asa ca acum au putut declansa bataile si cascada de efecte de la minutul 3 fara nici o alta explicatie pentru ca aceasta era data din M1: Neo si ai sai contra agenti. Asa ca da-i nene bataie ca sa prajim creierii la platitori ca asta si vrea.

[toni]

tudy, esti incoerent...

[Arhanghell]

comercial...am sa va spun eu ce-i ala comercial!
comercial e atunci cand filmul tine o saptamana (uneori doua si rareori trei) in cinema de dimineata pana seara, si apoi apare altul.
repetarea procesului se cheama comercial.

[Arhanghell]

ha ha...sunt de acord cu tine...si eu vroiam sa spun ceva asemanator. si eu cred ca ultima parte va elucida toata problemele noastre. adica ale unora dintre noi...

Voi nu intelegi un singur lucru`...M2 a fost sacrifikat pentru M3...asta se vede clar!Am vazut faze din M3...si va asigur ca asa este!De ce credeti ca intervalul dintre cele doua filme este asa de scurt??!?!?!A avut un final mai ciudat care va fii elucidat in M3! O sa regretati voi toate aceste cuvinte urate spuse despre M2 cand o sa iesiti din sala de cinema de la M3...

Multi au pornit cu, conceptia ca va fi un film mai slab...nu zic, ca nu o fost asa...dar macar merita sa apreciem munca acelor oameni!Iar cand va aud ca spuneti ca a fost comercial...innebunesc!Pai voi ce a`ti fi vrut...daca imi permiteti sa va intreb?La ce va asteptati?Mai mult de atat nu cred ca se putea...Tot spuneti ca a fost comercial...pai daca nu erau fazele acelea de lupta...daca Neo nu o` invia pe Trinity...daca...etc...ce mai ramanea oamnei buni din film?!?!?Inca o data va intreb:CUM A`TI FI VRUT VOI SA FIE MATRIX RELOADED CA SA NU`L CONSIDERATI COMERCIAL??!?!?!??!?!?!?!? :evil:

:roll:

[Arhanghell]

...si apropo, cum mama :evil: este asta pagina 7 din 6?
:o

[blitz43]

Zicea bine un prieten. Realizatorii au jubilat la sansa oferita de M2 ca ...

cred ca mai degraba au juisat...
parerea mea!

[Daydream]

My apologies to all for the late reply… First things first:

@ blitz43
You really wanted to get “colorful” at me, eh? Be careful not to break your own quote from Elizabeth Kenny… This BTW was - clickety-click, strengthening my memories with a Google search - a controversial personage, partly because of her intolerance of opposition… Anyway there is another saying of hers, something about trying not to be a sheep… Think about that.

@ricutza
Nu, aluziile nu iti erau adresate tie in exclusivitate; erau sensibil mai generale, rest assured. Daca vrei ceva verde in fatza, ti-as spune ca e de mirare (sau nu e?) cum ai cheltuit destul de multa energie sa subliniezi ca “Punch drunk love” e o drama si de ce anume, ba ai avut chiar un reflex de imaginatie sa faci trimitere la ea prin antiteza la “As good as it gets” (de parca cele 2 filme ar fi de pe aceeasi planeta), iar despre Reloaded nu gasesti decit cuvinte sa-ti exprimi plictisul… Parerea ta. (BTW, pe cei care au scris ca PDL e un film bun ii am pe o lista atasata de monitor, sa nu scap ocazia sa le scot ochii pentru miscarea respectiva! )

@ patch4all
You’re entitled to your opinion (very fair BTW), as is toni, as is everybody else. Dar nu sunt de acord cu pasajul "a cobori discutia la dezaprobarea flegmatica a altor opinii". Discutia este oricum suficient de jos (I'll prove that don't take my head as of yet) incit sa nu mai poata fi coborita. Daca as fi cinic si ti-as da dreptate as spune ca macar eu reusesc sa fiu flegmatic in timp ce altii nu prea reusesc nimic, nici macar nu stiu sa "ingroape" un film cu adevarat, daca ar avea suficiente motive sa o faca.

I mean hey! patch, (BTW great Matrix name , how’s that, after starting good enough, on the last two pages on this topic, before & after my message and after yours I can only see words about “commercial – not so commercial” thingie…? If they only picked that up from the theatres, they deserve no better! People are so blind that their senses react only at commercial stuff, ranging from "whoa"(comercial but good) to "shit!" (commercial but bad, we’ve seen it before). Anything different that falls upon their senses… well, does not compile!

And no, although U made me laugh , I'm no better program, since that will collide too strong with my perception of the real, and with my acceptance of what is called free will…

So far people, I could not stop wondering where the discussions about these are:
- We can never see past a choice we don't understand.
- Choice is an illusion created between those with power and those without.
- What do all men with power want? More power.
- You didn't come here to make the choice. You've already made it. You're here to try to understand why you made it.
- The love story. That's no usual love story. They bring "balance" to each other. To what extent? Far to what higher level…? (they wake up each other from the dead … pretty high I would say).
- You don't truly know someone... until you fight them.
- The "vase" moment in first Matrix, the encountering with the Architect in Reloaded. Neo is told one and other thing happen (or so is hinted in Reloaded). Indeed truly a “moment of the observer”! Later on that.
- So many more: Matrix within Matrix, Smiths, choice vs. control…etc.

Those didn't draw anybody's attention?? Starting wondering: have we been in the same cinemas, have we seen the same movie???

Over 300 mil. $ budget you’re saying? Mega-hyped, eye-popping, brains-blasting special effects?? Bull-shiiiiiiit!!! That is not what the movies are about...

We are not here because you understood the movie but because you didn't! You don't know where is going, you don't see what is coming! I want to see what Wachowsky's are going to do with the millions of people that are still mind-imprisoned in the Matrix! How are they gonna be awaken, and at what price!?!?!

[Daydream]

I had a dream that I was trying to login to reality, to hack in through one of its gates... but I woke up to my normal sleep...

Ok, snapping back to forum business...:-)

I have read countless posts on many forums. I've been thinking. Reading... Thinking... Reading... Thinking... Maybe many went to see Reloaded expecting it to be the original Matrix^2. Disregarding many hints from all the trailers. Reloaded is different, it’s not the first Matrix movie. There we had some mind-bending ideas and only a handful of people to deliver them to our eyes. In Reloaded we got too many ideas and many of them don't clarify here but, most sure, in Revolutions. Only here in Reloaded we start to have a grasp on what is at stake, the life of hundreds of thousands (Zion), millions (sleeping in oblivion in the Matrix). Price of life is supreme, nobody can gamble with that... nobody but One, upon witch the burden of choice will be left... and the implacable moment of the choice he has to make is foreshadowed to him from the beginning... so please don't ask why he didn't make too many tongue-in-chick jokes...

In Reloaded the implications multiply, without asking the spectator if he is up to speed with the Wachowsky's minds. “I didn't like that, Keanu's haircut looks bad!" So what??? There are many, maybe too many things to explain, to get a grip on what one should consider "facts". It is almost impossible to stay with the facts. Your mind is bound to start jumping barriers...

1. In the first Matrix Neo is awakening to a crude, brutal reality. In Reloaded he is the one to reveal an even higher truth. But WHAT IS TRUTH?

2. In the first movie Trinity calls Neo back from the grasp of a virtual generated death, with a kiss, with her love, with her belief, with a power of a bound that defies limits. In Reloaded Neo doesn't let her go; the bound is yet again too strong for... that kind of death. Interesting. First time around an action in the real saves one killed in the virtual. Second time an action in the virtual does that. The level of interaction seems to go either way. Some were debating that in Reloaded Neo is so strong that he disrupted the signal that told Trinity "DIE!", "You're dead!" and bring her back to life. But how did it work the first time, I mean not considering the Christian side of the scene...? Hmmm...

3. On the Oracle, the Architect, even... counselor Hamann. Gee, this is gonna be big. CAN WE TRUST THEM??? Once again, WHAT IS THE TRUTH? They could all say things to deceive Neo. Or not. Or some part is lie some part is truth (really devilish that way). Or everything is aimed to a higher understanding that we, as spectators, are not allowed to know yet. But one thing is for sure: what they say, those things make Neo think. And one can argue that once he does that - the controversy of choice-control is resolved. You see, I cannot forget the vase. "Don't worry about the vase." "What vase?" Bang! "That vase." "But what will bake your noodles later is would you have still broken it if I didn't say anything?" (approx. quotes) The Oracle tells Neo he is not the One and he becomes the One. The Architect tells Neo that he’s to blame for a total system crash, and the extinction of the entire human race. Yet again Neo “ascend” (???) to a level of new & great abilities in… reality (ermm, well… to say so). The difference between knowing the path and walking the path. The moment of the observer. This seems to be a very interesting concept in quantum physics but I won't bore you with it. Bottom line you do not observe, you do not exists -> things have one way of being. You observe -> you change the way things are just by doing that. This can really spin up your mind. Is there really free will? Is there really choice? I've read in another forum this interesting dilemma: if the Oracle is omniscient, all knowing, or if God is, for that matter, whatever you do that is known before you do it. Thus, there will always be predetermination. No really free choice.

4. What is REAL? Some started that idea of a Matrix within a Matrix, a dream within a dream. A Zion-reality that is no more than an alternative construct for the 1% that don't accept the Matrix reality as it is. I watched the Architect speech countless times. There is nothing to really sustain that assumption...

But...: " And we have become exceedingly efficient at (destroying) it”. This is gonna be the 6th time they destroy Zion. No shit!?!? 6th time??? If REAL, that would mean this is not 21xx year as Morpheus presumed in the first movie because it is not possible to believe Zion city was build by snapping fingers. We should be hundreds of years later...

But if the Zion-reality is virtual, it’s just another construct... Then everything explains! The kiss to wake-up people from the dead, the stopping of the machines at the end of Reloaded... everything!

Only that somehow, just somehow, it doesn't work. I don't know why, but the story doesn't hold that, what we've been told so far is not enough for that, and to make Zion an alternate construct just by what we know so far it doesn't look like Wachowsky. There should be a bigger, better plot ahead, and we're only scratching our heads with bits of insufficient information...:-)

Besides there is kind of a logical answer, although too simplistic for my taste, posted on numerous pages outside: if the anomaly is systemic, there should be a One that wakes up from Zion to the real-real. This is not the case. So no Matrix within Matrix... so far! :-)

5. How Many Matrixes? This is really interesting. What happened to the other, old Matrixes? The Architect never used words like reboot or restart, that were used by fans on the forums. The Architect told about a dissemination of the code Neo carries and reinserting the prime program. So, does the Matrix reset or not? They should be different in a major way; the first one was perfect; the rest adjusted to a more imperfect, human-like environment. If yes, I'm wondering how can Merovingian and some of his guards know about, or came from, older versions of the Matrix, how can he know about the other ONEs?? How can agent Smith know about the older Matrix (even if he seems to be deceived, he didn't know about all of the older versions)? Does code transcends code? A reboot means a complete restart, not patchwork, not upgrading!


Well, although my thoughts are still running miles my fingers also start burning…:-) As 2 last mentions: 1) Hugo Weaving deserves great praise in my opinion for the way he delivered his speech before the courtyard melee; 2) Revolutions trailer opens up some really interesting possibilities. Again Hugo Weaving as Agent Smith laughing in what seems to be Oracle’s kitchen is perplexing by the between-the-lines meaning…!

[Leonard]

nu stiu cine are rabdare sa citeasca toate comentariile de mai sus. ma intreb daca merita... fa si tu un rezumat : )